Talk:Capture of Vrnograč

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Latest comment: 1 year ago4 comments1 person in discussion

I would like to see a reliable source which uses this name for this operation. BB (Chapter 75, pp. 293-295) states that this was a "series of operations" conducted by Abdić and ARSK forces between January and June 1995. There is no mention of "Operation Vrnograč 95" in BB, but it is clear that the objective of these operations was the capture of the town of Vrnograč. In this case, a descriptive title is probably best, and I suggest Capture of Vrnograč (there is no other article with that title, so no disambiguation is necessary). I propose moving the article to that title. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:24, 17 February 2025 (UTC)Reply

To be clear, IF there was an operation in WWII to capture Vrnograč (quite possible, but I'm not aware of it), and an article about that event was created, it would be simple to disambiguate them both with the year in parentheses (ie (1995), but that is not something we would do at this point. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 22:09, 17 February 2025 (UTC)Reply

There being no response here, I will move the article forthwith. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 22:18, 19 February 2025 (UTC)Reply

Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:21, 20 February 2025 (UTC)Reply

Infobox combatant classification

Latest comment: 1 month ago3 comments2 people in discussion

I recently made several infobox edits to this article that were reverted by User:Peacemaker67 with the edit summary stating that the involvement of VJ and RDB is well established in the body and was critical to the success of the operation, and that I should explain my changes on the talk page. I will address broader article improvements separately, but for now I will focus on the infobox.

The main issue is how the infobox should reflect the structure already established in the article body in line with MOS:INFOBOXPURPOSE. The infobox should remain a simple summary of the main belligerents and avoid adding explanatory phrasing such as “supported by elements of VJ and RDB”, since this introduces qualification and detail that belongs in the article body rather than the infobox. The article already clearly explains in prose that APWB and SVK were the primary forces, with VJ and RDB acting in supporting roles, so including them separately in the infobox creates unnecessary complexity and imbalance in presentation.

The current wording in the belligerents section is also inconsistent in terminology. APWB should be written in its full form for clarity, and SVK refers to the Army of Serbian Krajina rather than a state entity. It would be more consistent to align the formatting with the Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina entry and apply the same standard to both sides. I therefore suggest reinstating the previous version of this section for consistency and clarity. Ahmed.Mhdv (talk) 08:57, 23 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

I disagree. It does nothing of the sort. It is clear from the prose that the VJ and RDB and RDB-controlled troops (from Yugoslavia/Serbia) spearheaded the attacks by the main force units, and therefore were very important elements of the order of battle, and should therefore be clearly identified and included in the infobox. As far as the treatment of the proto-state entities in the infobox, it's pretty complex, because elements of the forces of both proto-states were involved, along with Yugoslav/Serbian special forces, they were all working together, and the reporting lines aren't completely clear except that OG "Pauk" was commanded by a SVK officer. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:41, 23 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

The VJ, RDB, and SDG elements are described in the sources as part of the operational structure of OG “Pauk”, operating within its overall formation rather than as separate independent forces.

Because of this, they are already represented in the article through the units section, which is the appropriate place for detailing internal composition. The infobox is intended to summarise the main organized belligerents, not break down sub-components of a single coordinated force.

Separating these elements into the combatants field would split one operational grouping into multiple overlapping entries, which does not reflect how the sources describe OG “Pauk” as a unified formation.

FR Yugoslavia could be mentioned in a supporting capacity, but it is not necessary given its role is already explained in the body and reflected in the unit structure.

As for the units section, I propose the following revised version. This keeps the structure consistent with the sources, ensures the three APWB brigades are explicitly included, and reflects the SVK corps-level grouping described in the text:

Operational Group "Pauk"
- NOZB
  - 1st Velika Kladusa Brigade
  - 2nd Cazin Brigade
  - 3rd Vrnograč Brigade
- SVK
  - 21st Kordun Corps
  - 39th Banija Corps
- Elements of:

Ahmed.Mhdv (talk) 11:07, 23 April 2026 (UTC)Reply

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