Talk:Black Rod

Question

"an official of a figure"? What does that mean? Is it some kind of technical British legal term? Tex 12:11, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

I have never heard the phrase. I think it is suppossed to be 'an official figure'--Captdoc 12:38, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

I have removed it.

I have also taken the references to black rods from other countries out of the description of the UK version and put them in a seperate section, as in the previous version the article kept jumping between different officers in different countries and I found this confusing. Richard75 19:35, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

People keep changing the Australian deputy usher to different things... 58.178.201.180 15:02, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Question 2

Why "Black Rod"? What is the derivation of the title? Why an ebony cane? Was ebony available in C14?

I don't know why it's a black rod, or the availability of ebony in C14, but I do know it's ceremonially broken over the grave of a monarch after their death (part of the attendant to the sovereign role). The rod itself actually unscrews in the centre for this very purpose. It's all a bit OR for me to put down, unless someone's got a source - but my google-fu is weak today. --RedHillian 15:33, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm sure in the C14 they could paint a stick black.

You might want to have a read of Register of the Most Noble Order of the Garter (London, 1724), page 463 onwards. Lots of general talk about the "Honour of Rods", how the Garter King of Arms has a white rod, etc. And at page 465:

"To the French Treatiſe here quoted a Note is added, That there are two Rods in the Order of the Garter, one white ſignifying Joy, the other Black denoting Puniſhment; and probably this Obſervator believed, that this white Rod might be firſt allowed to Garter, in Contradiſtinction only to the Black Rod carried by the Gentleman Uſher in that Order, who hath, his Denomination from it, and in Truth was an Officer of much earlier Inſtitution than Garter, and whoſe Buſineſs it was to apprehend and arreſt any Knights Companions, who tranſgreſſed againſt the Statutes"

This strongly suggests that the office of "Black Rod" predates the Order of the Garter.

As well - I was reading Wikipedia article about Enoch Powell - where it says: "He asked whether [Edward] Heath realised that the words Black Rod used went back to the 1307 Parliament of Carlisle and were ancient even then." 58.110.44.246 (talk) 03:05, 9 August 2025 (UTC)

'Lady Usher'?

Could there be a female 'Black Rod'? (And if there was would it be 'Lady Usher of the Black Rod?)

English subject?

I do not think the Usher of the Black Rod has to be a natural born English subject. He or she may need to be a natural born BRITISH subject, but I would be very surprised if subjects born in Wales, Scotland or Northern Ireland were barred from the post. The claim that the place of birth must be England is not supported in the references given, so far as I can tell, and it is not a requirement for being a Knight of the Garter. (Though I might have missed something.) I will change the entry to delete the unsupported claim about having to be a natural born English subject if nobody objects. 82.7.76.142 (talk) 14:05, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Aye

Photo removed

I have removed the photo File:Gentleman Usher of the Black Rod of NZ.tiff, as it does not in fact show the New Zealand Usher of the Black Rod, but the New Zealand Herald of Arms Extraordinary, who also carries a rod, which happens to be black, as a symbol of office. This photo shows both the Black Rod and New Zealand Herald; This photo, an official version of the removed photo, correctly indicates the person is the New Zealand Herald of Arms Extraordinary. Dr pda (talk) 21:55, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

Five Members

The article says that the ceremony at the State Opening of Parliament commemorates Charles I attempted arrest of the Five Members in 1642. It was my understanding that it commemorates the Commons' Protestation of 1629 when the House of Commons defied the King's demand to end Parliament and the doors were slammed in Black Rod's face. Either way the article is not clear. 213.121.232.197 (talk) 12:18, 2 April 2014 (UTC)