Talk:Beacon College

Latest comment: 2 years ago by Ari0ari0ari in topic added a section for "campus"

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I am an employee of this college, so I have a bias. However, as this is part of two different projects and the article is especially short, it could certainly be expanded. First, I want to point out a couple of inaccuracies. This statement: "other specific learning disabilities such as Autism" is not quite accurate because autism is not technically a learning disability (though some of the students are certainly on the spectrum). The list of majors should include Studio Arts. And the total number of students is about 200, not 270. Other colleges include sections for topics such as history, campus life, recognitions, and student life, and these are missing entirely from this article. I am including a few links to outside resources to help fill in these gaps: History: http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2013-03-15/news/os-lk-beacon-college-new-building-20130315_1_beacon-college-new-office-teachers-and-staff http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2011-07-15/news/os-lk-beacon-college-president-qa-20110715_1_interim-president-permanent-president-beacon-college Rankings/ Recognitions: http://www.valuepenguin.com/2013/06/best-colleges-florida http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/college_guide/rankings_2012/liberal_arts_social_mobility.php Thank you! Grmdre (talk) 00:40, 23 November 2013 (UTC)Reply

Promotional content

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Editors with a conflict of interest and SPA accounts have been repeatedly asked to refrain from adding promotional self-adulation to this article. Please read WP:COI, WP:NPOV and WP:PROMO. I have reverted the article back to the last encyclopedic version, as the more recent versions were too full of advertising to be salvageable. The latest version also plagiarized content from the school's website. Suggestions for neutral and referenced changes can be posted at WP:PAIDHELP. GermanJoe (talk) 00:04, 5 December 2015 (UTC)Reply

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Request edit on 18 May 2019

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Some proposed changes

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Information to be added or removed: This entire current Wikipedia page for Beacon College should be scrapped and replaced with this more robust, up-to-date, (and heavily footnoted) version.

Darrylowens312 (talk) 22:55, 21 May 2019 (UTC)Reply

Reply 22-MAY-2019

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  Additional references requested  

  • 64% of the references provided originate from the subject school and the Orlando Sentinel. This is understandable given the COI editor's connections to both of those organizations. However, Wikipedia would prefer references from reliable WP:SECONDARY sources which are unconnected to the subject school.[1][a]
  • To that end, kindly provide references from sources which are unconnected to the subject college. To assist in locating these sources, I have placed some search suggestions at the top of this thread. Simply click on any one of the search engines listed to effect a search of the subject in those engines. When these additional sources have been located, please feel free to submit those references in a new edit request at your earliest convenience.

Regards,  Spintendo  07:02, 22 May 2019 (UTC)Reply

Notes

  1. The Orlando Sentinel, as a local paper covering its local, neighborhood school (Beacon), would not be considered independent of the subject. This is because the Orlando Sentinel's role as an objective journalistic endeavor may occasionally come into conflict with their role as provider of news catering to those in the local area. It goes without saying that there is generally a sizeable onus upon publications nationwide to pay specific attention to local area businesses and organizations which many of their subscribers may be employed by or derive income and/or livelihoods through. The result of this onus is oftentimes generous coverage of said organizations within their publications, reporting which may or may not be neutral in tone.

References

  1. "Wikipedia:Verifiability". Wikipedia. 8 May 2019. Self-published sources may be used as sources of information about themselves, usually in articles about themselves or their activities, without the self-published source requirement that they be published experts in the field, so long as the article is not based primarily on such sources.

Spintendo, thank you for your feedback.

Unfortunately, your proposed remedy places an unachievable burden on Beacon College.

Beacon College is a tiny niche school founded 30 years ago by a group of parents for students with learning disabilities. Situated in a small city in Lake County, and with fewer than 200 students just a mere six years ago, the school, by and large, has not been on the radar of the breed of non-parochial publications that would lack the “homer” bias that you imply the sources cited in this edit request would have.

Thus, the suggested sources you provided to search through for Beacon College content is largely moot. We searched those databases and found less than a handful of articles that we could swap with the Orlando Sentinel articles [they would simply repeat the same factual data that we footnoted with the Orlando Sentinel articles]. But we are certainly happy to do this. Still, without the articles in The Orlando Sentinel, a Pulitzer-Prize-winning newspaper that until recently positioned itself among its competition as a Southeastern regional newspaper based in Orlando, the history of the college will be mostly bones without flesh.

The fact of the matter is few national publications/outlets have covered the history and important events of Beacon College in the granular fashion required to provide the robust chronicling that this Wikipedia article entry edit request does.

The articles written by outfits outside our geographical orbit that were not cited in this edit speak generally and in a macro fashion about the college's concept and mission if that.

The only coverage that a small, niche college like Beacon naturally would expect came courtesy of the local community newspaper (The Daily Commercial) and the regional metropolitan daily, the twice-Pulitzer-Prize-winning, The Orlando Sentinel (for the record, Beacon College is more than an hour away from the Orlando Sentinel office, and thus, in the strictest sense, doesn’t seem to qualify as its "neighborhood school").

Moreover, as you know, journalists are not at our beck and call (no matter how often we may reach out). Therefore, it is only reasonable that most of the granular history and facts — particularly the mundane bits — would find a home not in an outside editorial outlets but rather the college's own publications and website.

Indeed, that is the case with another college who operates in the LD space, Curry College (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curry_College), whose Wikipedia page posts a relatively long article with five footnotes (three of which are sourced from the school's website). Likewise, Elon University's (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_University) posting contains 44 footnotes, most of which are Elon-sourced. And there there's Rollins College (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rollins_College), another Orlando-area school, whose Wikipedia page stands sans editor's notes, yet features in the lion's share of its 104 footnotes Orlando-based or Rollins-college-generated sources (i.e. The Orlando Sentinel, The Sandspur [Rollins College student newspaper], the Rollins' website, The Winter Park Chronicles (Rollins College is based in Winter Park), Rollins Magazine, local TV and radio outlets, etc.). We're can't understand what appears to be defacto inconsistency.

Certainly, we understand and honor the need for protocols and have labored to satisfy yours (including beefing up secondary sources and disclosing my conflict of interest, etc.). And certainly, our intent is not to instigate a virtual screaming match.

Nevertheless, your panacea for Beacon College is all but a Sisyphean task — one that we're undertaking because not only have our stakeholders suggested it was time, but because we are cognizant that increasingly everyone (from students to lending organizations) turn first to Wikipedia for a quick read on colleges.

We realize that placement in Wikipedia is a privilege not a right. However, it seems rather an unnecessarily exclusionary practice for an information portal meant to democratize and broadcast information to compel an organization to produce as alternative substantiation sources that simply don’t exist — especially when unadulterated facts reported under journalistic ethics already has been presented in this edit request.

We look to a second look and reconsideration of this matter.

Darrylowens312 (talk) 17:32, 23 May 2019 (UTC)Reply

Thank you for your reply, and while I appreciate your concerns, the fact that there is a dearth of independent sources reporting on the subject is an important sign that must be recognized. For whatever reason, the Orlando Sentinal has decided that it would devote a substantial portion of its reporting to Beacon. Only the Sentinal's editors can say for sure why that was, but my guess is that it was because the publication is biased towards regional news stories. This is not to knock the Sentinal and its reputation. The Sentinal, as you know from having worked there for many years, is a very reputable publication. But no one is immune from the risks of developing a conflict of interest. The Orlando Sentinal may be an hour away, but in the minds of the editors the school is geographically close enough that they feel an obligation to cover it. This is the definition of having a regional bias. As far as the other school's articles you've mentioned, let's put those into perspective:
College Year opened
Curry College[a]1879; 147 years ago
Elon University[b]1889; 137 years ago
Rollins College[c]1885; 141 years ago
Beacon College1989; 37 years ago
As we can see from the chart above, the length of time that these individual colleges have had to generate independent sources is considerably different from that of Beacon. In the end, no one is suggesting that the article be devoid of these Sentinal sources, only that it should not be using so many of them to base the article upon. Reviewers need to be aware of this regional bias when deciding which sources are to be approved for use in articles, because that bias can have a great effect on the tone and composition of the article. Regards,  Spintendo  05:41, 30 May 2019 (UTC)Reply

Notes

  1. The sourcing for this college leaves a lot to be desired, as indicated by the refimprove maintenance template.
  2. This article is too reliant on its own sources.
  3. This article is too reliant on its own sources. This is a longstanding problem with college articles in Wikipedia. (See also WP:UNIGUIDE for more information.)

Good morning, Spintendo:

Again, I appreciate your gracious response.

You ponder the reason why the Orlando Sentinel would "devote a substantial portion of its reporting to Beacon."

First of all, any major metropolitan newspaper worth its salt boasts a higher education reporter, and sometimes more than one (a large metropolitan area like Boston, with the embarrassment of riches it enjoys in institutions of higher learning might task several reporters to cover the higher education beat).

Consequently, a higher education reporter writes articles about the higher education institutions within the newspaper's geographic coverage area.

In the case of the Orlando Sentinel, these institutions would include Rollins College, the University of Central Florida, Seminole State College, Valencia College, Stetson University, (sometimes Florida A&M and Bethune-Cookman), Lake-Sumter College, and, when warranted, Beacon College.

As such, this charge of "regional bias" doesn't compute. Obviously, a newspaper that covers higher education would cover news of the institutions of higher education in its regional coverage area. That would not be classified as bias. That would be classified as the newspaper doing its job.

Moreover, Beacon College received coverage by the Orlando Sentinel because of the school's novelty — Beacon College is one of only two colleges in the United States dedicated to educating students with learning disabilities, ADHD, and other learning differences. These are students who before 1989 when the school was founded had few options in pursuing postsecondary education.

Novelty is news. Therefore, of course, any newspaper — including The Orlando Sentinel — would cover novel news in its geographic area. That is the function of a standard newspaper operation — not evidence of regional bias.

Moreover, the chart that you included MAKES the argument I advanced.

Your chart rightly shows that the institutions noted have existed far longer than Beacon College. Yet, despite their maturity, their Wikipedia articles still rely on a preponderance of regional news coverage and self-generated sources.

Your argument suggests that given their longer operating lives that these schools should have been able to produce far more "non-regional/independent" and "non-biased" sources than their Wikipedia articles contain.

And yet they don't.

Yet, their articles pass muster.

So, returning to my main point, regarding the "dearth of independent sources," there was no way 30 years ago when the school was founded nor anyway today to compel news outlets outside the region to write articles about a small niche school outside their coverage areas. Nor is there any way Beacon College can jump into Dr. Who's Tardis and return to the past and compel or cajole news outlets, book authors, think tanks and others to pen articles about the Beacon College-related happenings that the Orlando Sentinel rightly chronicled.

The historical coverage of Beacon College to this point is what it is. There are no other sources to be found in the countless databases we search. You can't turn up what doesn't exist.

Given the reliance that many people across the globe now have with using Wikipedia articles as their go-to source for information about a subject, we recognize the importance, value, and desperate need for Beacon College to have a comprehensive — and accurate — Wikipedia article available for individuals researching the college. What currently exists is woefully out-of-date and woefully inadequate.

What recourse does the college have?

Darrylowens312 (talk) 14:32, 31 May 2019 (UTC)Reply

Reposting this reply [looking for response and recourse]

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Good morning, Spintendo:

Again, I appreciate your gracious response.

You ponder the reason why the Orlando Sentinel would "devote a substantial portion of its reporting to Beacon."

First of all, any major metropolitan newspaper worth its salt boasts a higher education reporter, and sometimes more than one (a large metropolitan area like Boston, with the embarrassment of riches it enjoys in institutions of higher learning might task several reporters to cover the higher education beat).

Consequently, a higher education reporter writes articles about the higher education institutions within the newspaper's geographic coverage area.

In the case of the Orlando Sentinel, these institutions would include Rollins College, the University of Central Florida, Seminole State College, Valencia College, Stetson University, (sometimes Florida A&M and Bethune-Cookman), Lake-Sumter College, and, when warranted, Beacon College.

As such, this charge of "regional bias" doesn't compute. Obviously, a newspaper that covers higher education would cover news of the institutions of higher education in its regional coverage area. That would not be classified as bias. That would be classified as the newspaper doing its job.

Moreover, Beacon College received coverage by the Orlando Sentinel because of the school's novelty — Beacon College is one of only two colleges in the United States dedicated to educating students with learning disabilities, ADHD, and other learning differences. These are students who before 1989 when the school was founded had few options in pursuing postsecondary education.

Novelty is news. Therefore, of course, any newspaper — including The Orlando Sentinel — would cover novel news in its geographic area. That is the function of a standard newspaper operation — not evidence of regional bias.

Moreover, the chart that you included MAKES the argument I advanced.

Your chart rightly shows that the institutions noted have existed far longer than Beacon College. Yet, despite their maturity, their Wikipedia articles still rely on a preponderance of regional news coverage and self-generated sources.

Your argument suggests that given their longer operating lives that these schools should have been able to produce far more "non-regional/independent" and "non-biased" sources than their Wikipedia articles contain.

And yet they don't.

Yet, their articles pass muster.

So, returning to my main point, regarding the "dearth of independent sources," there was no way 30 years ago when the school was founded nor anyway today to compel news outlets outside the region to write articles about a small niche school outside their coverage areas. Nor is there any way Beacon College can jump into Dr. Who's Tardis and return to the past and compel or cajole news outlets, book authors, think tanks and others to pen articles about the Beacon College-related happenings that the Orlando Sentinel rightly chronicled.

The historical coverage of Beacon College to this point is what it is. There are no other sources to be found in the countless databases we search. You can't turn up what doesn't exist.

Given the reliance that many people across the globe now have with using Wikipedia articles as their go-to source for information about a subject, we recognize the importance, value, and desperate need for Beacon College to have a comprehensive — and accurate — Wikipedia article available for individuals researching the college. What currently exists is woefully out-of-date and woefully inadequate.

What recourse does the college have?

Darrylowens312 (talk) 18:13, 18 June 2019 (UTC)Reply

My reply may be found on my talk page for the next 30 days — after that, in the talk page archives. Please note that this page is not on my watchlist, so replies to me may go unanswered unless I'm notified on my talk page. Regards,  Spintendo  23:44, 7 November 2019 (UTC)Reply

added a section for "campus"

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Agree with a previous poster who commented that this page needs some more information on it. I updated some of the statistics in the quick facts chart and added a section with some information on the campus, similar to what I see on other college articles.

I added some citations to U.S. News, but ran into the same issues as previous editors with finding non-primary sources. I kept my edits brief for today to avoid skewing the ratio of primary sources, but I'm not sure I quite see the issue- combing through wikipedia articles for larger universities, the majority seem to be overwhelmingly self-referential when comparing the number of primary and secondary sources as well.

This is my first Wikipedia edit, so hopefully I did everything correctly! Ari0ari0ari (talk) 21:54, 20 January 2024 (UTC)Reply