Talk:Bar Kokhba hiding complexes

Not enough on rock shelters

@Dovidroth: thank you, Dovid, for translating the Hebrew article! Excellent job. I missed an English article quite a bit.

Who knows now where to get material for the rock shelters from? That part has hardly got a mention: where, what, how? Thanks, Arminden (talk) 00:42, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

Mariamnei has done the heavy lifting regarding the Bar Kokhba refuge caves. Chapeau! All what's missing now are the rock shelters. Arminden (talk) 22:25, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

Must be renamed & rewritten

New research shows that the hiding complexes started earlier and their use in Bar Kokhba Revolt was just a final (if very important) chapter in a long evolution. Arminden (talk) 22:38, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Main use and spread was before & during the BK revolt, so we can argue about keeping the name. Arminden (talk) 20:09, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

Photo: what, where

Owenglyndur, hi. The photo looks absolutely great, but I wasn't aware of a hiding complex at a place called Hurvatt El Ein, the entrance looks a bit too fancy for a hiding complex, plus the spelling and Hebrew-Arabic mix looked suspicious, so I looked it up. Are you sure it isn't a burial cave, quite large but not connected to any tunnels? Boaz Zissu excavated one at Khirbet el-'Ein in the Shephelah. If so, the photo can be used at Rock-cut tombs in ancient Israel. Cheers, Arminden (talk) 08:48, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

Looking at B. Zissu's Fig. 5... Arminden (talk) 08:51, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

Additional items for "See also"

Hi Mariamnei, how are you?

May I ask you for a favour? I've been topic-banned, so I cannot edit here myself, and I believe that 2 items should be added to "See also":

• Erdstall, medieval European underground tunnel system

and

• Souterrain, underground structure of the European Atlantic Iron Age

Sorry to bother with such things and I would perfectly understand if you'd ignore this. All the best, Arminden (talk) 11:15, 10 June 2026 (UTC)

Hi @Arminden. I do not believe this article is included in any CTOPs so I believe you can edit here despite a TBAN. If you have any doubts, please ask an admin. Also, if you are not allowed to perform this edit, asking me could potentially violate WP:PROXYING, but once again please ask an admin for details. Have a great day! Mariamnei ✦ ^{reach out 🕊️} 12:11, 10 June 2026 (UTC)

Thank you​, I followed your kind advice and got the green light for the edit from an experienced admin. I'll happily add to the tallest Mariamne I statue the deeply-felt line "Patria riconoscente" in gilded bronze letters :)) Arminden (talk) 10:25, 11 June 2026 (UTC)

@Arminden - Thank you for your kind words! Mariamnei ✦ ^{reach out 🕊️} 11:27, 11 June 2026 (UTC)

Date: much older than BK Revolt; title change?

Hidden deep within the article:

"... at least 100–200 years old when integrated into the refuge systems."

This has implications on the whole approach, including the title.

It has to be looked into in depth and decided: is this the latest consensus? What does it mean for the overall interpretation?

If it's just about older individual underground spaces (cisterns, chambers), which were only connected into wider systems in preparation for this or that revolt, it's a weaker case, but the sentence there says something different, so either that's not the case, or the sentence must be reworded. Arminden (talk) 11:42, 13 June 2026 (UTC)

One very strong example: the huge field of 55 hiding complexes at Nesher-Ramla (1st century BCE-1st c. CE), discovered within the same Nesher quarry as the Ayyalon Cave. Also interesting: it's already west of the Shephelah, as far as I can tell. There's a whole 24-page publication on the topic here. Arminden (talk) 11:50, 13 June 2026 (UTC)