Talk:Bakla

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This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Peer reviewers: Rtanaka96.

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Potential resource

This study seems to be about bakla: http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~content=a904203098&db=all

The full text isn't publicly available, but someone who has access could expand this article using it.

--Alynna (talk) 21:26, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

Confusion

Article seems unsure whether to define bakla as how it is generally defined (incorrectly, as the equivalent of the English term 'gay'). It isn't actually the same as 'homosexual'. Bakla themselves are a subculture, distinct from just being 'gay'. It is never used to refer to lesbians, seldom used to refer to masculine gay men (the article already mentions that those are colloquially called Paminta, a Spanish-derived term meaning 'spice'), or to bisexuals (again referred to in slang as Silahis, Tagalog for 'sunbeam'). Understandable though since there is actually no English equivalent for the concept of bakla.

Anyway, yeah article needs extensive rework.--Obsidi♠n^Soul 09:04, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

I highly second that. There is no equivalent of the term for 'gay' in any traditional Asian language and Bakls is clearly a third gender term -- which is very different from the concept of 'gay.' First, 'Bakla' is a gender identity, not a sexual identity. It's their self-identity as a woman that makes a male Bakla, not one's self-identity as a man who likes men. Third genders are many a times bisexuals as per their sexual lifestyle, and sometimes even exclusively heterosexual. The very first sentence of the article is misleading. Will someone from the LGBT section do the necessary correction.(Masculinity (talk) 19:47, 3 February 2014 (UTC))

third gender

Should bakla be referred to as 3rd gender, when acceptance of the term bakla, usually means equal acceptance of the term tomboy. From what I've seen from visits to the Philippines is that there are four accepted genders male/female/bakla/tomboy Spacecowboy420 (talk) 08:43, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

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Evaluation of this article

Although this article makes good use of citations for the most part, there are some relatively important parts of the article (such as the section about how there is "at least one bakla...living a normal life") that don't use any citations at all. The sources that are used are neutral/un-biased (such as a dictionary entry, or academic paper), but the article could definitely use more of them. Additionally, there are some parts of the article that are written a little bit awkwardly ("It has often been mistaken that..." or "the stigma that was put upon people who belong to the third gender lasted'til modern times but now in a less strict way"). Rtanaka96 (talk) 17:10, 2 April 2017 (UTC)

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Bakla does not just mean "transgender"

Bakla is used as a slur for gay men in general not just effeminate men, cross-dressers or transgender women-- it is disturbing to see this article being sculpted through the lens of Western gender concepts. This is dangerous, and only re-enforces out-dated gender roles and violent machismo beliefs that gay men are not "real men". Bakla does not automatically mean transgender-- it is more often used as a pejorative to socially emasculate men. Please stop re-colonizing us with patriarchal and regressive gender ideology from the west. Furthermore, using a link from a far-right wing, RACIST & FASCIST blog to "prove" that bakla is a "third gender" is DISGUSTING. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 112.118.37.71 (talk) 08:48, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

Unsigned contributor from Hong Kong: You assert that "'Bakla' is used as a slur (and) a pejorative to socially emasculate men". You provide no evidence to support this, nor any links to reliable secondary sources that would enable anyone to weigh the relative credibility of your assertions. You seem to be comfortable slurring and making pejorative claims against some unidentified blog allegedly being "far-right wing, RACIST & FASCIST", which once again, does not lend credibility to your claims. From your history here, you seem to have engaged in edit-warring about this topic. So why don't you act like a responsible Wikipedia editor and sign-in, and provide those sources to correct what you allege to be disinformation here? You may be correct that "bakla" can be used in a pejorative way, although it is also clear that some Filipinos/Filipinas self-identify as "bakla" (perhaps similar to the term "queer" in the West, where some use it as term of derision and others as self-identification). So what term is correct to use for transgender people in the Philippines? Bricology (talk) 03:18, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

The Dalai Lama's views on homosexuality

Under the heading "Religions" the final sentence states "As for Buddhism, the Dalai Lama has maintained that homosexuality is 'sexual misconduct' for Buddhist followers but does not condemn it for non-believers." I am at a loss to understand what the Dalai Lama has to do with anything regarding sexuality and/or religion in the Philippines, given that he is the spiritual leader of only Tibetan Buddhism, which exists almost exclusively within Tibet, and the Tibetan diaspora. He is not considered authoritative in any sect of Buddhism practiced in the Philippines (not to mention the fact that Tibet is 2,000 miles distant from the Philippines). Unless someone can make a compelling case for why it should stay, I'll remove this sentence as irrelevant to the article. Bricology (talk) 02:54, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

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Dictionary definition vs. actual usage

The study by De La Salle University indicates that the usage of the term is more nuanced than a few lines in the KWF dictionary.

The Term "Bakla"

Historically in the Filipino culture, bakla is believed to be a man being afraid to do something dangerous, thus is weak. He behaves in a feminine manner and stereotypically works in a beauty parlor. This term has been used in research articles, debates, and consistently used in academic writing to capture all the characteristics of a gay. Although bakla captures the characteristics of a man who is queer, or a man with a woman's heart. Bakla is not homosexual "if only for the fact that sexuality as a discourse fixed around the homo/hetero definition does not have analogues in our native language".

Pinging editors who might be able to shed some light on this apparent incongruency (@DJ Baguio: @Bricology: @Masculinity: @Firefangledfeathers: @Obsidian Soul: @Equivamp: @DoebLoggs: @Eternal Shadow:) as requested by @Magintapat: (a.k.a. "Pakitotoo").

    –Skywatcher68 (talk) 23:30, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

@Skywatcher68: Isn't that what is already in the article? Bakla is more accurately an "effeminate man," which is the definition in the lead paragraph. It is a gender identity, not a sexuality. Though almost always homosexual, that is not always the case. There are notable instances of bakla marrying women while still self-identifying as bakla, e.g. Ogie Diaz, who wrote a book on it. Conversely, masculine gay men were originally not included in the term.

But in modern times, due to western influences, it has become synonymous to "male homosexual" in colloquial usage, regardless of whether they are feminine or masculine.

The history of the term is also already explained quite extensively. "Bakla" originally meant something like "to hesitate", "to back out", "to be confused", later expanding to mean "fearful" or "coward." Hence it was originally used as a derogatory term for effeminate men.

This is entirely different from the gender identity which has existed since ancient times under other names, as explained in the history section, like "Bayok" and "Asog." Both of which, on the other hand, meant "impotent" of "infertile," rather than anything related to weakness or fearfulness. As mentioned, some of the earliest rebellions and resistance against the Spanish colonial rule were led by asog shamans. -- OBSIDIAN†SOUL 00:45, 30 December 2025 (UTC)

It is but the editor with two accounts (they apparently forgot the password to the first one) tried to replace the content with the dictionary definition. After I reverted, they accused me of being a gatekeeper and requested (on the talk page for Pakitotoo (talk · contribs)) input from native speakers. So here we are.   –Skywatcher68 (talk) 14:16, 30 December 2025 (UTC)

Ah. Well. They seem good-intentioned and they do have a point. The article does use a lot of modern western-centric jargon, which are confusing since they're rarely used in the Philippines. -- OBSIDIAN†SOUL 18:18, 31 December 2025 (UTC)

I am a bit confused as to why I got tagged into this talk, as I only have done stuff about reverting vandalism done in this article and not much about adding some more content in this article. I'm grateful for the call for help or assistance, but I'm afraid I don't think I have anything to say say or add that much about the topic besides my opinions and experiences, which might be anecdotal at best. Apologies and best regards. DJ Baguio (talk) 15:31, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

DJ Baguio: pinging any recent editors for input is pretty common. I've been in the same boat at least once.   –Skywatcher68 (talk) 04:12, 15 January 2026 (UTC)