Talk:Animal Crackers (1930 film)

Latest comment: 5 months ago by Darth Stabro in topic Did you know nomination
Former featured article candidateAnimal Crackers (1930 film) is a former featured article candidate. Please view the links under Article milestones below to see why the nomination was archived. For older candidates, please check the archive.
Good articleAnimal Crackers (1930 film) has been listed as one of the Media and drama good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Did You Know Article milestones
DateProcessResult
June 17, 2025Peer reviewReviewed
October 1, 2025Good article nomineeNot listed
November 27, 2025Featured article candidateNot promoted
December 19, 2025Good article nomineeListed
Did You Know A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on January 2, 2026.
The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that the 1930 Marx Brothers film Animal Crackers (complete film featured) entered the public domain in the United States on January 1, 2026?
Current status: Former featured article candidate, current good article

GA review

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


This review is transcluded from Talk:Animal Crackers (1930 film)/GA2. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: Jm307 (talk · contribs) 19:45, 3 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

Reviewer: Viriditas (talk · contribs) 21:21, 3 December 2025 (UTC)Reply


Feedback

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Initial observations
  • @Jm307: The lead still fails to summarize the main points. For example, you don't mention the censored 1936 reissue in the third paragraph, but instead talk about later influences, which should probably moved to the fourth paragraph. In addition to the lead, there's a slight disconnect between the censorship of the 1936 release and two later sections. For example, you don't talk about this in the "1930 release and 1936 re-release" section, but allude to it as "several small cuts to accommodate the Production Code", which is frankly a bit weird, because you did talk about it in the previous production section, where it doesn't really fit. After all, the censorship occurred years after the production. I realize these are pretty minor issues, but they do stand out on a re-read. There's a lack of unity in terms of just this one issue. Figure out how to handle the re-issue and censorship in the lead. While unusual, it does look like censorship should be moved out of production and into the 1936 re-release section. Etc.
  • "It established several of the Marx Brothers' most famous comedic routines." Is this supported in the body?
  • Why is there still a source citation in the last paragraph of the lead?
  • Duplication of restoration info in multiple sections seems odd. It's mentioned in the lead (good), then in the censorship section under production (not convinced it should be here), then briefly mentioned again in "Rights issues and 1974 re-release" and "Home media". It does feel like it deserves its own section or move to another, perhaps home media, as the restoration occurred that same year as the release. Looking online, there is a lot more to say about the restoration process that doesn't appear here.
    • Thanks! I'm going to try responding to your comments more quickly this time, to see if that makes a better review. To your points:
    • I've changed the lead to match your suggestion, and consolidated discussion of censorship and restoration in the re-releases in the appropriate release section.
    • There's a ton to say about the restoration process, but I didn't want to turn the article into a trivia dumping ground (e.g., listing *all* of the restored censor cuts). Were there particularly interesting bits that you thought should be included?
    • Re: "It established several of the Marx Brothers' most famous comedic routines." - the text talks about the songs ("Hooray for Captain Spaulding"; "Hello I Must Be Going"; "I'm Daffy Over You") and the quote in the AFI top 100. I guess these are only routines if you squint hard at them. "famous comedic bits" sounded a bit off. Maybe "famous parts of their repertoire"?
    • There was a source citation in the lead because, the information being only one sentence, I didn't think it was worth including elsewhere. I've duplicated it in the release section with the citation, and removed the citation in the lead.

References

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Show this table to see outstanding issues.

Review

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Placing this review on hold. You were supposed to go through all of the sources after the last review. The spot check table above shows that you did not. This is why I failed the first review, as the random sample I took at the time indicated this was the original problem. I thought you said you were going to revisit this. There are currently 79 refs. I made my way through 15, of which only a few had no problems. Most people would fail a second time at this point. However, I am confident you can fix this. You will need to review the 15 sources that I left comments about and use the remaining 64 entries to check them yourself and make notes in the table so that I and others can see that you verified it yourself. In other words, do the verification and use the table to indicate your work. Don't worry about changing the numbering as you add or subtract sources, as I will check in here and there and update the table accordingly. Good luck. Viriditas (talk) 09:02, 5 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

To be clear, there's a difference between what I did after the first round and most of what you've pointed out.
What I did was check to make sure that the fact stated immediately before the reference was supported by the reference. There were some issues with that, which I cleaned up.
I didn't check statements before that to the previous reference. For example, Saito 2012 did support the existence of a movie, but not of the album mentioned before it. I can go through the article and do that now.
I also didn't check stylistic details, like whether filmsite was capitalized correctly. There were also several sites where I didn't see a date, where you have helpfully found one. I am likely to continue to get stuff like that wrong, even after further review.
In other words, I was wrong about where the bar was. Which is fine, and I can go back for another round. Just don't be shocked if I continue to screw up the capitalization.
Re: Amazon: I did check to see if citing Amazon was kosher before I did it. It seems to be acceptable, especially in Home Media sections - for example, it is cited in the article for Casablanca, which is FA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casablanca_(film)#Home_media. Regardless, I've replaced it with another citation.
Thanks again for your patience with this - Jm307 (talk) 17:41, 5 December 2025 (UTC)Reply
Casablanca is one of our oldest FAs. You can click on the links to FA review versions in the talk page header. None of them linked to Amazon at the time, meaning it has been added later. It should be easy to link to other articles that support the content, and as I showed above, Zacharek & Taylor 2004 already support half of it. The missing half is just adding {{Cite AV media}} which allows you to add an OCLC and an ISBN, which takes you to a Special:BookSources page when you click on it, that links to Amazon among others. That's how you do it. Viriditas (talk) 20:34, 5 December 2025 (UTC)Reply
I already added a different supporting citation. Would it be valuable additional information to add the {{Cite AV media}} as well?
Not really. You found a better way. Good work. Viriditas (talk) 20:47, 5 December 2025 (UTC)Reply
Note: if you have any additional issues finding source material (like Variety), make a note in the table and I will help. Viriditas (talk) 22:00, 5 December 2025 (UTC)Reply
@Jm307: Keep doing what you are doing. I'm thinking about splitting out the "fix" entries from the "checked" and "tbd" entries (blank) so we can see where we stand. Just giving you a head's up in case you notice three tables instead of one. As for your repeated questions about citing plot, it really depends on how you do it. For example, when this comes up in art articles, we are pretty careful to confine such material to a "description" section; same is true for film. In film-related articles we generally leave that kind of thing in the plot section and nowhere else. When you start mixing them together it can get problematic and border on OR. However, I have run into exceptions like you describe. I think we will need to take it on a case by case basis, which is why I'm going to split the table out. Viriditas (talk) 23:24, 6 December 2025 (UTC)Reply
I changed my mind. It was easier to use row colors instead of separating the tables. Viriditas (talk) 02:24, 8 December 2025 (UTC)Reply
So now you only have two outstanding problems. That's very good considering what you started with. Viriditas (talk) 02:28, 8 December 2025 (UTC)Reply
Okay, three. Much improved. Will take a look later. Viriditas (talk) 20:58, 8 December 2025 (UTC)Reply
Thanks! I note that holds usually last a week. That's a couple of days from now. What happens when the hold expires? Or is there no mechanism keeping track of that? Jm307 (talk) 21:40, 10 December 2025 (UTC)Reply
Depends on the reviewer. I am happy at the progress you’ve made and I think we can extend it for a little while to keep improving things. I’ve replied to your questions in the table so it may be a good idea to begin there. Viriditas (talk) 21:48, 10 December 2025 (UTC)Reply
@Jm307: Once you finish addressing the red-listed items in the table (add, delete, replace), please do a final read-through. Once you’ve done that, I will do mine. Viriditas (talk) 03:58, 11 December 2025 (UTC)Reply
Thanks! I've found a bunch of small things, but I assume it's still a complete mess... Take a look and let me know. Thanks! Jm307 (talk) 06:25, 12 December 2025 (UTC)Reply
Issues
@Viriditas Just checking in - is there anything I'm supposed to be doing right now? Thanks! Jm307 (talk) 16:34, 17 December 2025 (UTC)Reply
Did you finish your read through? I had to take a break for a few days from this review. I'm back now. Let's finish it up. Viriditas (talk) 23:02, 17 December 2025 (UTC)Reply
Just want to say how much I love this line: "regularly arriving late, taking long lunches, and leaving early." Viriditas (talk) 00:15, 18 December 2025 (UTC)Reply
Note, I might make this into a t-shirt. Viriditas (talk) 03:02, 18 December 2025 (UTC)Reply
@Viriditas Truly, an aspirational lifestyle for all of us. Jm307 (talk) 06:11, 18 December 2025 (UTC)Reply
  • @Jm307: Is there a reason you didn't expand the cast section per MOS:FILMCAST? I'm thinking you already had much of this material left over from extraneous deleted plot section detritus that could have been moved here. Just wondering why this was never done. Obviously, it's not required nor necessary for GA, but I'm guessing this was ignored because the majority of our older film articles never managed to create a fully fleshed out cast section, so there's a bit of selection bias going on here. Might be interesting to bring this up with the film project in the future. Virtually all of our film articles post-1970 (at GA and FA level) have extensive cast sections. I think I tried to get clarification on this from the films project a decade ago, but I don't recall the outcome. Something to think about in the future.
    • TBH, I wasn't sure what to add. A lot of the discussion of the casting process is in the production section, and most of them aren't as much characters as they are flimsy excuses for a joke. I can take a pass over it, if you think it would be valuable. One interesting take might be more detail on what changed from conception to the stage version to the film (e.g., the Chandler character was originally a rabbi, not a fish peddler, and was supposedly a take on Otto Kahn, who struggled with his Judaism).
  • Zeppo subverts the expected role of the obedient subordinate by admitting he omitted the parts he didn't think were important.
    • This was one of my fave scenes in the film. There was something spontaneous and improvisational about it that really appealed to me. I wonder if more could be said about this in the future.
      • I can say a lot about it, but most of it probably doesn't belong in the article unless I can find citations. :) The brothers worked very hard to make their dialogue seem spontaneous. A famous observation (I forget who made it) was that, if the viewer hadn't seen the script, they would have believed that Groucho was making it up on the spot. When you add the brotherly mind-meld you get from a decade or more on stage together, you get something very special.
  • @Jm307: I made some copyedits to fix obvious issues. However, I did not get a chance to copyedit the sections on Themes, Release, and Reception, all of which have minor prose issues. Please re-read and copyedit. Viriditas (talk) 02:48, 18 December 2025 (UTC)Reply
    See final review comments below. You're almost done here. Viriditas (talk) 03:03, 18 December 2025 (UTC)Reply
    @Viriditas It was more like an hour, and, unfortunately, it's too late here for any sort of beverages, but I believe it is probably closer to what you had in mind now. Jm307 (talk) 06:08, 18 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

  1. Is it well written?
    A. The prose is clear and concise, and the spelling and grammar are correct:
    Issues fixed. Attribution added.
    B. It complies with the manual of style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation:
    Recommend future cast section expansion before next FAC. See comments above.
  2. Is it verifiable with no original research, as shown by a source spot-check?
    A. It contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline:
    Issues fixed with extensive reference spot check (see collapsed table indicating fixes up above)
    B. Reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose):
    C. It contains no original research:
    D. It contains no copyright violations nor plagiarism:
  3. Is it broad in its coverage?
    A. It addresses the main aspects of the topic:
    Broad.
    B. It stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style):
    Cultural influence subsection needs a bit of cleanup so that it doesn't read like a glorified trivia section. It's very close, but needs a little attention.
  4. Is it neutral?
    It represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each:
    Neutral. Future expansion: I would encourage the nominator to search out more critical analysis. While there's no NPOV problems at the moment, the topic could benefit from more in depth criticism regarding the controversial subject matter.
  5. Is it stable?
    It does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute:
    Stable.
  6. Is it illustrated, if possible, by images?
    A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content:
    Tags are good. Lead poster image moved to Commons.
    B. Images are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions:
    Relevant. Captions are good.
  7. Overall:
    Pass or Fail: Minor issues related to prose in "Themes", "Reception", and "Release". Possible issue with framing of trivia in the "Cultural influence" subsection. This article is close to passing, but I would encourage the nominator to select a hot or cold beverage of their choice and spend 30 minutes to an hour working on these three sections. After that, I would say that all issues have been addressed and we can move towards closure.
    Article now passes criteria after two reviews, extensive spot-check of all sources (see collapsed table up above) and full copyedits. The nominator expressed interest in featuring this article on the main page in the new year. Given that this is now a GA, you will have seven days to submit a DYK nomination, and I recommend that you do so soon. You can use the now free image File:Animal Crackers Movie Poster.jpg to lead your hook, and you will have accomplished your original goal with some minimal variation. Good work. Viriditas (talk) 01:50, 19 December 2025 (UTC)Reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Did you know nomination

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. You can locate your hook here. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Darth Stabro (talk) 19:54, 23 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

The four Marx Brothers in Animal Crackers
The four Marx Brothers in Animal Crackers
  • ... that the Marx Brothers film Animal Crackers (poster pictured), which was kept out of circulation for decades due to a rights dispute with its original writers, will enter the public domain on January 1, 2026?
Improved to Good Article status by Jm307 (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

Jm307 (talk) 05:37, 19 December 2025 (UTC).Reply

General: Article is new enough and long enough
Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px.
QPQ: None required.

Overall: I would prefer ALT1; because I think the release year is necessary for foreign readers who might be not aware of the Public domain policy to understand it better. Vestrian24Bio 04:24, 20 December 2025 (UTC)Reply