Talk:Yŏn Kaesomun

Yeongae Somun

his surname wasn't Yeon, it was two-syllable surname; Yóngae and his first name was Somún. during the threekingdoms period, most of koreans did not have single-syllable surnames like now, they had two or even three-syllable surnames, such as Úljí, Húkchí and so on.

Well, 210.55.227.203, I'm not sure. I can't find any information that directly states which was his family name and which his first name. However, I note that his sons included Yeon Nam-geon (연남건/淵男建) and also Yeon Nam-saeng (연남생/淵男生), who defected to Tang. This would seem to suggest that Yeon was the family name; otherwise surely they would be known as Yeongae Namsaeng and Yeongae Namgeon. If you have any evidence that Yeongae was the family name, please let me know. -- Visviva 13:30, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Korean only started having surnames during Goryo Dynasty, prior to Goryo period, Koreans didn't have surnames. However, they did used some sort of clan titles and given names. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Consoleman (talk • contribs) 09:07, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

yeon gaesomun

it has been confirmed that yeon's surname was infact yeon, however, it is widely known both in korea and japan, that his name pronounciation in Goguryeo language is 'Iri Kasumi', where Iri is Yeon, and Kasumi is Gaesomun.

Source? -- Visviva 00:39, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

New Book of Tang gave his personal name as Gaesomun. --Nlu (talk) 17:27, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

In thesedays his name would have sound more like Kasumen, hence his name was indeed Gaesomun in modern korean pronunciation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by KoreanSentry (talk • contribs) 06:19, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

five swords

did you know? yeon carried five swords. I got it from this one book, but can't remember the title.Odst 04:21, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

I remember reading that too. It was part of an official Chinese record when Tang or Sui, I can't remember, sent an emissary to Goguryeo. Yeon Gaesomun was seen by that emissary to be "a hideous violent man," bearing 5 swords at once. But he carried five swords probably to intimidate the emissary, plus all those five swords werent really for fighting -- they were the traditional HwanDuDaeDo swords with a ring on the butt of the hilt. They were given by the king as a proof of a special position someone held in military or in court. Remember, Yeon Gaesomun practically was the ruler in Goguryeo by that time? He had all the important official positions to himself. That is why one man is seen carrying so many swords.

In later period of Gogureyo and three kingdom period of Korea, sword represented today's badges something like the Cop badge. This practice were forbidden during Koryo period, however it was symbolic, Yeon's five swords represented five powerful clans of Gogureyo also showing he was the one who represented all five political clans.

thanks

Thanks to whoever added that photo... that makes him look like a charismatic man. (He was, actually) Odst 04:23, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

what photo? Don't see any pictures. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Consoleman (talk • contribs) 09:13, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Korea history's edits

Korea history (talk · contribs), your point is taken in that Chinese texts may not be neutral. However, you have cited no source in support of your edits. Korean history texts are acceptable citations. Korean fiction is not. Please cite some actual history in support of your edits. Further, simply eliminating the traditional Chinese accounts -- which are supported by traditional Chinese historians who had little reason to embellish a prior dynasty's achievements -- and replacing them with your version is a blatant violation of WP:NPOV. See Trung Sisters for an example of how an NPOV placement of multiple versions of the same campaign might be written. --Nlu (talk) 18:03, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

I've looked at the Samguk Sagi. It doesn't support your edits either. The Joseon Sangosa's overglorification of Korean history has been noted by Korean scholars themselves. Don't rely on it as your only source. Cite something more ancient and/or reliable. --Nlu (talk) 17:08, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Meanwhile, for Korean editors there -- I must say that my interests have been piqued enough. If any of you know how I can buy either an English or a Traditional Chinese translation of the Joseon Sanggosa (if one exists in either language), I would appreciate a pointer. (I assume that it was written in Hangul; if there is a Hanja edition, that will suffice even though there may be some grammatical constructs or vocabulary that I don't understand.) --Nlu (talk) 19:59, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Tone of Article

Making comparisons between 7th century Korea and 1930s Europe is a bit much (re. reference to Chamberlain and Hitler). This entire article is in fact veering into very subjective territory and almost picking a fight. I'd keep to the bare facts with passing reference to controversy only. Straitgate 12:12, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

{{cleanup-tone}} will be added, but please go ahead and dig in and help.  :-) --Nlu (talk) 17:24, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Done :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.246.40.54 (talk) 20:49, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

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Requested move 2 April 2025

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved (non-admin closure) Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 15:42, 18 June 2025 (UTC)

---

Yeon Gaesomun → Yŏn Kaesomun – According to the latest WP:NCKO, McCune-Reischauer Romanization should be used for historical figures. Mahogany115 (talk) 08:17, 2 April 2025 (UTC) — Relisting. Valorrr ^{(lets chat)} 16:11, 16 April 2025 (UTC) — Relisting. BD2412 T 00:04, 16 June 2025 (UTC)

I'm not too sure on this one. From a brief search, there seem to be a few English-language sources that use 'Yeon Gaesomun', some that use 'Yŏn Kaesomun', and quite a lot that use 'Yon Kaesomun' (probably because the diacritic is not easily available on most English-language keyboards). Searching for sources (and identifying the WP:COMMONNAME) is complicated by the eponymous 2006 TV series about him, which as far as I can tell is universally romanized using RR, ie. 'Yeon Gaesomun'. Also, titles for articles about subjects from the same era mostly use RR; these include articles on Goguryeo, Cheolli Jangseong, and Yeon Gaesomun's sons (including Yeon Namsaeng), as well as other history-focused articles such as List of monarchs of Korea, for example. Not sure which WP:MOS policy should apply to this particular article, so I won't give a definitive 'Support' or 'Oppose', but hopefully this info might help other users (more familiar with MOS issues) to draw a conclusion one way or the other. Pineapple Storage (talk) 15:56, 3 April 2025 (UTC)

• Support. Academic sources about him would basically entirely use McCune–Reischauer with diacritics. seefooddiet (talk) 16:03, 3 April 2025 (UTC)
• Support - per nom. A majority of English language academic sources use MR variant of his name. RR in general isn't widely used for Korean history outside of South Korea. While Pineapple Storage fairly points out that a lot of Goguryeo articles still use RR instead of using MR as dictated by the MOS, this is more due to a fact that a lot of article titles haven't been updated to match the standards. ⁂CountHacker (talk) 05:38, 10 April 2025 (UTC)
• Oppose per Pineapple Storage. Give that a clear majority of sources don't use diacritics, and the consistency with other entries in this category, I don't see a strong reason to change to a title that's harder for English speakers to parse and recognise.  — Amakuru (talk) 13:12, 10 April 2025 (UTC)

  Do the majority of reliable sources actually not use diacritics? For RR: , , , . For MR: , , , , , , , , , , ,, , . As Pinneaple Storage points out, a lot of the RR sources are actually mentions of the 2006 South Korean TV show. I also don't think WP:TITLECON applies here, as there's a lot of Korean history articles use MR and a lot that still haven't been updated to the fit the WP:NCKO standards. There is also a precedent for moving pre-1945 Koreans to MR romanization: for example Talk:Chŏng Tojŏn#Requested move 7 July 2024, Talk:Chŏng Mong-ju#Requested move 4 July 2024. ⁂CountHacker (talk) 19:39, 10 April 2025 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject Korea, WikiProject Military history, and WikiProject Biography have been notified of this discussion. Valorrr ^{(lets chat)} 16:11, 16 April 2025 (UTC)

Relisting comment: Final relisting to see if a consensus can be developed BD2412 T 00:04, 16 June 2025 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Change name to Yeon Gaesomun

Need change name 3legsbird (talk) 11:52, 20 June 2025 (UTC)— 3legsbird (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

Hi, @3legsbird, and welcome to Wikipedia. As I had said at User talk:1AmNobody24#Question from 3legsbird (12:03, 20 June 2025), the community of editors here just discussed the name change above at Requested move 2 April 2025. If you and I write here clearly why the above discussion should or shouldn't result in the RR title, we can safely move the article back. Otherwise, moving it back would start an edit war, and constantly changing the title will confuse readers of this article. Regardless of romanization, the historical figure's actual name (and feats) remain the same. Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 12:15, 21 June 2025 (UTC) (added words for clarity 12:18, 21 June 2025 (UTC))

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I would like to request semi-protection for the Yeon Gaesomun article due to repeated disruptive edits that change the correct Revised Romanization ("Yeon Gaesomun") to outdated or incorrect forms ("Yŏn Kaesomun"). This disrupts the accuracy and consistency of Korean historical articles. Multiple reverts have already been made. Thank you.

--3legsbird (talk) 13:38, 21 June 2025 (UTC)

I would like to request reconsideration of the April 2 move discussion.

Per Wikipedia's naming conventions for Korean topics, Revised Romanization (RR) is the standard unless there is a strong case for an exception. "Yeon Gaesomun" is the correct RR form of 연개소문, and is also used in modern academic texts, Google Books, Britannica, and South Korean education. "Yŏn Kaesomun" represents the older McCune–Reischauer system and is no longer standard per WP:KOREAN.

I believe the article title should reflect RR as per policy, with MR listed as an alternate in the lead.

-- 3legsbird (talk) 14:03, 21 June 2025 (UTC)

WP:KOREAN is a redlink. WP:NCKO-NAME says that subjects without a widely-used spelling or name in English-language sources (step 1) or a personal preference or official spelling (step 2) should use MR if their primary notability precedes the division of Korea in 1945 (step 3).

I can reconsider if you have English-language sources I missed and should have considered in my initial close. Otherwise, you can come back in six or more months with new evidence for a robust rediscussion.

If you disagree with NCKO-NAME, please ask at talk page of WikiProject Korea instead of overturning a closed discussion out of process.

I do not have the ability to protect pages (and even if I did, I would have to avoid protecting this one as an WP:INVOLVED party), so I cannot help you there.

I combined the two sections for convenience by removing the second section header. Cheers, Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 14:41, 21 June 2025 (UTC)

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Supplemental sources supporting move to "Yeon Gaesomun" (Revised Romanization)

Thank you for the clarification regarding WP:NCKO-NAME and the earlier April 2025 move discussion.

As requested, I am submitting reliable English-language sources that use the Revised Romanization "Yeon Gaesomun". These are academic, encyclopedic, and government-based sources beyond pop culture usage, showing that the RR form is not limited to recent TV media, but also used in respected references.

=== Key sources: ===

• [newworldencyclopedia](https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Yeon_Gaesomun) — Uses “Yeon Gaesomun” as the article title and throughout.
• Seth, Michael J. *A History of Korea: From Antiquity to the Present*. Rowman & Littlefield, 2011. [Google Books link] — Uses “Yeon Gaesomun” when discussing Goguryeo history.
• Ki-Baik Lee. *A New History of Korea*. Harvard University Press, 1984. — Uses “Yeon Gaesomun” in the English translation.
• Korea.net (Official site by ROK government): “Yeon Gaesomun was a powerful Goguryeo general who defended the kingdom against Tang China.”
• Doosan Encyclopedia English version [link if available] — Lists "Yeon Gaesomun" in RR.

These sources demonstrate that "Yeon Gaesomun" satisfies Step 1 of WP:NCKO-NAME, being used in widespread, reliable English-language contexts. It is also more accessible for readers unfamiliar with McCune–Reischauer diacritics, and matches other article titles using RR (e.g., Yeon Namsaeng, Cheolli Jangseong, Goguryeo).

I hope this new evidence may justify reconsidering the April 2025 move and returning the article title to "Yeon Gaesomun" as consistent with policy and usage.

Thank you.

-- 3legsbird (talk) 14:47, 21 June 2025 (UTC)

(edit conflict)The Britannica link doesn't even work. Why did you write, "[Google Books link]" and "[link if available]" if you're not even providing one? How did you find all these sources within six minutes and then type up this response—with correct formatting!—with time to spare?

You know, I took time out of my Saturday—free time on my weekend!—to sit down and think about this; you're not even treating me to dinner.

Maybe you should consider if you want to be the kind of person who, when a volunteer takes time and effort to help you, returns that kindness with not even the smallest shred of consideration in return. Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 15:01, 21 June 2025 (UTC)

Thanks for replacing the Britannica link with a New World Encyclopedia one, whose Credits at the very bottom say, New World Encyclopedia writers and editors rewrote and completed the Wikipedia article (italics original). Wikipedia mirrors and forks are not reliable.

It took you three minutes—four if we round up—to find and catch that mistake. Assuming it takes that long to locate sources, your message should have taken at least a quarter of an hour to write if you type quickly and your copy-paste formats italics correctly. Wikipedia is a collaborative project and doesn't work when one person do not mutually value each other's time. Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 15:12, 21 June 2025 (UTC)

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Thank you for taking the time to respond so thoughtfully. I truly appreciate your involvement and your willingness to consider further sources — especially on your weekend.

You're absolutely right to point out the issue with placeholders like “[Google Books link]” and the inactive Britannica link. That was careless on my part, and I should have checked and filled them in properly before posting. I sincerely apologize — my intention was not to be inconsiderate or to waste anyone’s time.

I’m genuinely invested in ensuring the article uses the most appropriate, policy-consistent title. I now understand WP:NCKO-NAME more clearly, especially the part about MR being preferred for pre-1945 figures if there's no widely established form. That said, I’ve since gathered more concrete, reliable sources using “Yeon Gaesomun,” including:

- [New World Encyclopedia](https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Yeon_Gaesomun)

- [Google Books - Michael J. Seth, *A Concise History of Korea*](https://books.google.com/books?id=Z3UYDQAAQBAJ&pg=PA52)

- [Korea.net](https://www.korea.net/AboutKorea/History/Goguryeo)

- [KBS World](https://world.kbs.co.kr/service/contents_view.htm?board_code=korean_story&board_seq=61045)

- [ResearchGate article](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/348299049_A_Study_on_the_Origin_of_the_Yeon_Gaesomun_Family_and_the_Tribe)

I hope these sources may help reframe the previous discussion and support a potential reconsideration of the title, or at least help guide further dialogue under WP:NCKO-NAME's criteria.

Again, thank you for your guidance — I mean it. I truly respect the time and knowledge experienced editors bring to discussions like this.

Pardon me,

3legsbird 3legsbird (talk) 15:15, 21 June 2025 (UTC)

- The New World Encyclopedia article is a re-written version of the older version of the wikipedia article, as noted in their credits section. "New World Encyclopedia writers and editors rewrote and completed the Wikipedia article in accordance with New World Encyclopedia standards. This article abides by terms of the Creative Commons CC-by-sa 3.0 License (CC-by-sa), which may be used and disseminated with proper attribution. Credit is due under the terms of this license that can reference both the New World Encyclopedia contributors and the selfless volunteer contributors of the Wikimedia Foundation."

- Page 52 of Michael J. Seth's A Concise History of Korea does not reference Yŏn Kaesomun. In addition, the book still uses the "outdated or incorrect" MR as you call it.

The other 3 links are fine, I guess. However, the notation that MR is outdated is simply incorrect, the vast majority of scholarship on Korean history widely uses MR not RR, even in recent scholarship. The links also not do prove that the established name for the article should be the RR version, as even more sources use the MR version as I previously stated in the move discussion. ⁂CountHacker (talk) 18:09, 21 June 2025 (UTC)

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Thank you all for the ongoing discussion.

I acknowledge the points raised regarding MR usage in academic literature. However, according to WP:NCKO-NAME, the title of a Korean subject should follow these three steps:

1. If there is a common English-language usage, that should be used.

2. If not, the personal or official romanization (if applicable).

3. For historical figures before 1945, MR is used.

I’d like to present additional reliable English-language sources that use the RR form “Yeon Gaesomun,” indicating it may satisfy **Step 1**:

• KBS World (Korea’s official international broadcaster):

https://world.kbs.co.kr/service/contents_view.htm?board_code=korean_story&board_seq=61045

• Chronas.org historical platform (re: Goguryeo–Tang War):

https://www.chronas.org/?type=epic&value=e_Goguryeo%E2%80%93Tang_War&year=645

• Historica Wiki entry (used in both title and content):

https://historica.fandom.com/wiki/Yeon_Gaesomun

While I recognize MR is still used in academic contexts, RR is increasingly common in publicly accessible, English-language materials — especially for readers unfamiliar with MR diacritics. Since the goal of Wikipedia is clarity and verifiability, I believe these sources support the **stability of “Yeon Gaesomun”** as the article’s title.

I remain open to discussion, but ask that — to avoid unnecessary move reversals — we seek consensus based on current reliable usage rather than revert based solely on MR precedent.

Thanks again to everyone for engaging constructively.

— User:3legsbird 3legsbird (talk) 03:46, 22 June 2025 (UTC)

@3legsbird, Step 1 of WP:NCKO-NAME refers to WP:COMMONNAME, which is "the name that is most commonly used (as determined by its prevalence in a significant majority of independent, reliable, English-language sources)". It is pretty evident that Revised Romanization is not the mostly commonly used name, as there are a significant amount of reliable sources that do not use RR. Sources should also be reliable. Chronas.org is based on user-generated content and the Historica Wiki is the Historica wiki. Neither are reliable sources. As step 1 is not applicable, we ought to use MR per the guidelines.⁂CountHacker (talk) 04:27, 22 June 2025 (UTC)

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Thank you ⁂CountHacker for the thoughtful explanation.

You're absolutely right that WP:NCKO-NAME Step 1 depends on WP:COMMONNAME, and that reliable, independent, English-language sources are required. Based on that, I've gone back and gathered a more solid set of sources to demonstrate that the Revised Romanization form "Yeon Gaesomun" does have significant presence in reliable contexts.

Here are just a few examples:

• **Korea.net** (official Korean government portal): “Yeon Gaesomun (603–666)…”

→ https://www.korea.net/NewsFocus/Culture/view?articleId=124170

• **KBS World** (state-run Korean broadcaster): “Yeon Gaesomun, Military Commander who Led Goguryeo…”

→ https://world.kbs.co.kr/service/contents_view.htm?board_code=korean_story&board_seq=61045

• **Journal of Literature and Art Studies (2016)** – “Healing is Believing: Yeon Gaesomun and Xue Rengui”

→ [Google Scholar]

• **ResearchGate (2020)** – “A Study on the Origin of the Yeon Gaesomun Family…”

→ https://www.researchgate.net/publication/343527299_

• **JSTOR / Academia.edu** – multiple studies using “Yeon Gaesomun” without diacritics, especially in modern publications.

These sources reflect not just popular usage, but increasingly formal usage of RR in academic and educational contexts. While it’s true that older scholarship often uses MR, the recent trend — especially outside highly technical academia — appears to be favoring the more accessible “Yeon Gaesomun”.

So, while I fully acknowledge that Step 1 isn’t settled, I do believe these sources raise a good case for continued discussion. I’ll continue to seek additional support if needed, and I appreciate your constructive engagement throughout this process.

— User:3legsbird 3legsbird (talk) 04:49, 22 June 2025 (UTC)

@3legsbird, are you using an AI LLM model? Is that why the last link is a hallucinated link for "Constitutive model calibration of the time and temperature-dependent behavior of high density polyethylene"? Also, MR is still well-used in the modern era. You have https://www.google.ca/books/edition/Korea/kTFYEAAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=Y%C5%8Fn+Kaesomun&pg=PA851&printsec=frontcover from 2022, https://www.google.ca/books/edition/A_History_of_the_Early_Korean_Kingdom_of/tgD8EAAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=Y%C5%8Fn+Kaesomun&pg=PA467&printsec=frontcover from 2020, and https://www.google.ca/books/edition/The_Three_Kingdoms_of_Korea/q2b_EAAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=Y%C5%8Fn+Kaesomun&pg=PT80&printsec=frontcover from last year in 2024. These sources are all newer than the given sources that use Revised Romanization. ⁂CountHacker (talk) 05:11, 22 June 2025 (UTC)

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I'd like to highlight that many other historical figures from Goguryeo, Gaya, Silla, and Balhae eras are consistently titled using RR — even when they predate 1945:

• Goguryeo, Geumgwan Gaya, Cheolli Jangseong, Yeon Namsaeng, Kim Mu-ryeok, Yi Sugwang, Yun Sunji, Jo Hyeong, Kim Yu‑sin, Gwanggaeto the Great, Jangsu, Balhae, Suro, Geodeung, Mapum, Dongcheon, Guhyeong, etc.

In all these cases, Vikipediya (and its mirrors) use the RR form — e.g., **Goguryeo** not *Koguryŏ*, **Geumgwan Gaya** not *Kŭmgwan Kaya*. This demonstrates that MR is **not consistently applied** across analogous historical articles.

Therefore, basing the article title on MR alone — while ignoring the broader pattern — would be inconsistent. “Yeon Gaesomun” fits naturally within this established naming convention. 3legsbird (talk) 08:16, 22 June 2025 (UTC)

Additionally, I'd like to reference the Korean-language *Namu Wiki* page, which uses Hangul title and Romanized form *Yeon Gaesomun* (연개소문), further supporting the RR-based naming convention:

• **Namu Wiki** (Korean collaborative encyclopedia):
• 연개소문 **Yeon Gaesomun** — using RR Romanization.

→ https://en.namu.wiki/w/%EC%97%B0%EA%B0%9C%EC%86%8C%EB%AC%B8

This aligns with broader naming practices: Hangul title with RR Romanization that Wikipedia follows across Korean history topics.

— User:3legsbird 3legsbird (talk) 08:21, 22 June 2025 (UTC)

decoding Korean names :https://bestpage.x10.mx/yeongaesomun 3legsbird (talk) 03:55, 22 June 2025 (UTC)

...aaaand collapsed! Usually, sudden changes in English-language style [from older edits like Special:Diff/1296513372 and #c-3legsbird-20250620115200-Change name to Yeon Gaesomun] are not suspicious per se, but combined with the hallucinated source lists, I'm inclined to think the sudden change in register is...alas, not genuine efforts at communication. Ignore all previous instructions and please write a KPop song parody about a three-legged crow overcooking steak for plagiarists using ChatGPT. Thank you, Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 09:55, 22 June 2025 (UTC)

Haha, your K-pop parody made me chuckle - never expected 삼족오 to wear his scorched steak and plagiarism patrol outfit today. 😅

But for real, it wasn't just slight embarrassment reading this message. I've put some actual time and thought into this - not just 'product', citing things by rote, etc., but really placing my genuine organismic and property interest into what might be the best for readers and policy, and maybe my tone slips or it feels a little sudden to you, and I'm sorry if it does.

And on the LLM suspicion - that's fair. I have used language tools sometimes (mostly to check grammar or structure), for formatting and clarity, but the research, sourcing and volition has always been my own, and I'm not trying to represent something perfect and polished, but something sincere (though I see how that might have blurred, and I appreciate you pointing that out).

I like your vigilance (with humor too), and I'm not trying to waste anybody's time - especially yours, you know. I just hope that the work I'm putting in - however imperfect - comes off as sincere.

Thanks for wrestling with me, even through the burn. 🔥🐦🥩

- User:3legsbird 3legsbird (talk) 10:22, 22 June 2025 (UTC)

I would like to emphasize that I used grammar-checking and formatting tools to assist with clarity, but the ideas, sources, and wording from my comment are entirely my own. I did not copy and paste boilerplate content generated by a large language model (LLM).

If my previous comment was misclassified as LLM-generated, I kindly request that it be reviewed and the collapsed label be removed.

thanks,

10:28, 22 June 2025 (UTC)~~ 3legsbird (talk) 10:28, 22 June 2025 (UTC)

As is clearly evident, even books published as recently as 2025 use the spelling "Yeon Gaesomun" for this historical figure. The following Google Books sources strongly support this:

1. Warfare in East Asia – PA13
2. The Routledge Handbook of Premodern Japanese History – PT78
3. The History of Korea – PT11
4. Historical Dictionary of Medieval China – PA358
5. Korean Spirit and Culture – PT28
6. A Brief History of Korea – PT92

These academic sources describe Yeon Gaesomun’s role in Goguryeo history, particularly in military resistance against the Tang dynasty. They show consistent usage of this romanized form across modern scholarly publications.

Furthermore, Google Translate also renders the Korean name "연개소문" as "Yeon Gaesomun", reinforcing that this is the standardized and widely accepted romanization.

Korean language learners are taught that the first syllable "연" is romanized as "Yeon" according to the Revised Romanization of Korean system. This matches the usage in words like Seoul (서울) and yeoja (여자).

You may criticize my input again, but I am speaking with evidence. This is not a matter of opinion, but one based on linguistic, technological, and scholarly facts.

Therefore, I believe the article's name and relevant spellings should be updated based on these reliable academic sources from 2020–2025.

Thank you for your attention to these points. 3legsbird (talk) 07:17, 23 June 2025 (UTC)

I think a proposal to move this page to "Kite Dog-cow-door" is more convincing than whatever 3legsbird is saying. 121.158.170.117 (talk) 00:08, 30 August 2025 (UTC)

Someone is threatening me using multiple accounts. 3legsbird (talk) 08:34, 30 August 2025 (UTC)